My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

You know the drill..

Moderators: Redneck_Randy, badmoonrising, lakerunner

Message
Author
User avatar
BoatCop
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:55 pm
Location: Parker, AZ

My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#1 Post by BoatCop » Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:34 pm

Finally got the boat out after the Simon tune-up.

4 people. Couldn't hit more than 22 MPH @ 6,100 RPM, engine was bouncing off the Rev Limiter at 6,100 RPM.
Med throttle 20 MPH @ 5,000 RPM

Wasn't sure exactly what the alarm and stumble (rev limiter) was as analog tach was reading 5,400.

Took to shop, was missing and needed new plugs. Analog tach was off from Smart craft.

Merc techs findings. 2 people. 26 MPH at 6,100 bouncing off the Rev Limiter. Recommended larger prop.

Prior to Simonizing I'd get 29 MPH @ 6,100 RPM (analog tach +/- 200) no rev Limiter

Here's where my question is:

Currently running standard 14x13 Black Max

What would be the best bet to bring the RPMs down and speed up. Looking at a few recommended props:

Spitfire 13.4x15 - 4 blade
Black Max 13.875x14 - 3 blade
Black Max 13.75x15 3 - blade

I just do general cruising. Occasional tube towing. Want good overall performance with decent top speed. Searched a bunch of the prop topics here and it seems like they're all over the map. I don't have anywhere to borrow props, so I need to get it right the first time.

Any help?
Alan
2012 22' Sun Tracker DLX Party Barge w/Merc 90 EFI 4 Stroke
2016 Chevy Tahoe
2009 GMC Sierra
2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler
1999 Southwind 34L MH
2 little Basset Hounds

smoker62
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 4:27 pm
Location: Kenosha, WI.

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#2 Post by smoker62 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:42 pm

I ran a 13 pitch spitfire on my 115 merc 4 stroke and it ran way better than my stock 15 black max. Gained a couple mph at a litte higher revs but held water so much better for trim and turns. Call Ricky at Brainerd props , he will set you up and he used to let you return for a different pitch if it didnt do what he said. But , he was always right in my case from my 250 vrod on my ranger , and my previous 3 boats .
2014 Crest Classic 250 SLR2 , Mercury 300 Verado Pro , Mercury Enertia Prop
2012 South Bay 522 , Merc 115 4S, Mercury Spitfire 4 blade prop-13 pitch light 25 mph gps, 11 pitch heavy - Sold

User avatar
BoatCop
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:55 pm
Location: Parker, AZ

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#3 Post by BoatCop » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:53 pm

smoker62 wrote:I ran a 13 pitch spitfire on my 115 merc 4 stroke and it ran way better than my stock 15 black max. Gained a couple mph at a litte higher revs but held water so much better for trim and turns. Call Ricky at Brainerd props , he will set you up and he used to let you return for a different pitch if it didnt do what he said. But , he was always right in my case from my 250 vrod on my ranger , and my previous 3 boats .

I checked their website. Seems they don't have any aluminum props. I'll call tomorrow and see what they might have.
Alan
2012 22' Sun Tracker DLX Party Barge w/Merc 90 EFI 4 Stroke
2016 Chevy Tahoe
2009 GMC Sierra
2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler
1999 Southwind 34L MH
2 little Basset Hounds

smoker62
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 4:27 pm
Location: Kenosha, WI.

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#4 Post by smoker62 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:37 am

He has them. I bought both my Nemesis 4 blades from him. Same as Spitfire but Quicksilver branded. Also all my stainless .
2014 Crest Classic 250 SLR2 , Mercury 300 Verado Pro , Mercury Enertia Prop
2012 South Bay 522 , Merc 115 4S, Mercury Spitfire 4 blade prop-13 pitch light 25 mph gps, 11 pitch heavy - Sold

User avatar
BoatCop
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:55 pm
Location: Parker, AZ

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#5 Post by BoatCop » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:56 pm

Picked up a Turning Point 13.5 x 15 4 blade prop at West Marine. Everything I've read shows this to be a suitable prop for what I have. This weekend I'll put it to the test and see what kind of numbers I get out of it.
Attachments
20160803_130613.jpg
20160803_130613.jpg (334.34 KiB) Viewed 3710 times
Alan
2012 22' Sun Tracker DLX Party Barge w/Merc 90 EFI 4 Stroke
2016 Chevy Tahoe
2009 GMC Sierra
2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler
1999 Southwind 34L MH
2 little Basset Hounds

User avatar
teecro
Posts: 1028
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:23 am
Location: Sunset Bay, TN

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#6 Post by teecro » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:34 pm

BoatCop are you running a Mercury Smart-Craft gauge? Wondering what your GPH fuel readings are at WOT setting?
T CRO
2017 Berkshire CTS 24 RFX with Yamaha F150/Simomized 200
2015 Caravelle 16 EBo with Mercury 90

User avatar
BoatCop
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:55 pm
Location: Parker, AZ

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#7 Post by BoatCop » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:36 pm

teecro wrote:BoatCop are you running a Mercury Smart-Craft gauge? Wondering what your GPH fuel readings are at WOT setting?
Yes I'm running Smartcraft. I'll let you know once I get it out.
Alan
2012 22' Sun Tracker DLX Party Barge w/Merc 90 EFI 4 Stroke
2016 Chevy Tahoe
2009 GMC Sierra
2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler
1999 Southwind 34L MH
2 little Basset Hounds

User avatar
teecro
Posts: 1028
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:23 am
Location: Sunset Bay, TN

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#8 Post by teecro » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:12 pm

BoatCop wrote:
teecro wrote:BoatCop are you running a Mercury Smart-Craft gauge? Wondering what your GPH fuel readings are at WOT setting?
Yes I'm running Smartcraft. I'll let you know once I get it out.
I'm still quite on the fence as to the Simonized ECU as in previous outings and contact with Simon I'm told that I must get my RPM up to see the HP improvements in force. Before being flashed my best performance on the 75 was with a 14" x 12P stainless 3-Blade other props tried were a Spitfire 13.8" x 11P and 13P also a 14" x 13P and 11P Black Max. None of these props turned over 5,500 RPM which is what Mercury calls WOT on the 75 motor. After flashing my WOT with the 14" x 12P is still 5,500 RPM and just shy of 10 GPH... So according to Simon I need to reduce pitch to gain RPM and HP so I break out the 13.8" x 11P and I'm still getting a max WOT of 5,500 RPM I'm just going slower due to decreased pitch. Try out the 14" x 13P and I'm seeing around 5K and roughly the same speed as the 14" x 12P @ 5,500 RPM... I'll contact Simon again to ask why my motor seems to have retained its 5,500 RPM limit after his flash...

Think I've learned my lesson here that small pontoons are just not meant to go much faster and 25 to 28 MPH
T CRO
2017 Berkshire CTS 24 RFX with Yamaha F150/Simomized 200
2015 Caravelle 16 EBo with Mercury 90

User avatar
BoatCop
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:55 pm
Location: Parker, AZ

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#9 Post by BoatCop » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:59 pm

Prior to the Simon treatment I was pulling 29 MPH GPS at 6,200 PM with 2 on board. This was a stock Merc 90 4 Stroke, spinning a 14x13, 3 blade Black Max.

After Simon I was banging the rev limiter at 6,200 RPM, but only getting 22 MPH. It felt like there was a lot of power left on the table and my tech even found a bad spark plug.

I'm hoping the slightly smaller (1/2 inch) diameter, larger pitch (2") and the four blade will keep my RPMs up, increase speed and keep acceleration and mid-range power satisfactory. Hopefully more speed than the un-simonized 29 MPH.

I'll see what it does when I get on the River this weekend.
Alan
2012 22' Sun Tracker DLX Party Barge w/Merc 90 EFI 4 Stroke
2016 Chevy Tahoe
2009 GMC Sierra
2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler
1999 Southwind 34L MH
2 little Basset Hounds

Soonertoon
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:19 pm

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#10 Post by Soonertoon » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:20 am

The prop you show in the photo is a cleaver type blade. I would highly doubt you get any benefit out of it as there's not nearly enough surface area for the "bite" you need to push a pontoon. In fact, Im somewhat amazed they claimed it was an applicable prop for a toon.
Broken Arrow Ok
2014 G3 Suncatcher
115 Yamaha 4 stroke
Paradise Cove Marina on Ft. Gibson Lake

User avatar
mzodarg
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:07 am
Location: S.W. Oklahoma

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#11 Post by mzodarg » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:47 pm

After chasing what seemed like a dragon since February I'm close to concluding that I wasted $600. I have a friend with the same pontoon, same year with a 115 merc fourstroke loaded about the same with the same prop and fuel level and his is by far better out of the hole top speed and hadling then mine.

I've tried several prop configuarations, and either I'm hitting the target rpm range with less speed or I'm hitting 29-30 MPH and 5200 rpms. :donno
[color=#0000FF]2015 Sun Tracker 22' DLX Fishn Barge-Schwintek power Bimini-Merc Eco Monitor
2015 Mercury 90hp (Simon Motorsports tuned )Command Thrust FourStroke[b] not worth the coin

[/color]

User avatar
slingshot
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:20 am

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#12 Post by slingshot » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:47 pm

Like someone said, that 4 blade is a cleaver or surface prop. I too doubt you'll get good results. Simonizing pontoon props is a bad idea. You'll just get a bunch of prop slip which I think you're experiencing. "Cup" the Black Max and you should get better results. Good luck.
2007, 2570 Crest LE II
Yamaha F150

JerEazy
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:12 pm
Location: Sarasota, FL

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#13 Post by JerEazy » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:00 am

deleted - found it on the interwebs when i google Simon and ECU

:drink
-Beaches Love Me

'03 Odyssey 21- 90hp Johnson

User avatar
BoatCop
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:55 pm
Location: Parker, AZ

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#14 Post by BoatCop » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:59 am

slingshot wrote:Like someone said, that 4 blade is a cleaver or surface prop. I too doubt you'll get good results. Simonizing pontoon props is a bad idea. You'll just get a bunch of prop slip which I think you're experiencing. "Cup" the Black Max and you should get better results. Good luck.
Simonizing is a slang term for having the engine ECU flashed to obtain maximum horsepower. To save production costs, many engine manufacturers offer a variety of HP working off the same engine platform. eg bore, stroke, displacement, etc. For example, the Mercury 4 stroke 75, 90, and 115 and identical engines, except for the ECU. By changing timing, fuel injection and, in the larger supercharged engines like the Mercury Verado, boost pressure, they can regulate HP, without changing mechanical features.

It has nothing to do with the prop, except that a different prop may be required to take maximum advantage of the increased HP. Simon Motorsports in San Diego is one of the main companies to do this. Hence the term "Simonize".
Alan
2012 22' Sun Tracker DLX Party Barge w/Merc 90 EFI 4 Stroke
2016 Chevy Tahoe
2009 GMC Sierra
2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler
1999 Southwind 34L MH
2 little Basset Hounds

urbnsr
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:54 pm
Location: Celina, Ohio

Re: My Simonized 90-115+ Findings

#15 Post by urbnsr » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:04 pm

I have been casually following the option of Simonizing, maybe because we used to play around with flashing EEPROMs many years ago, but I imagine someone has priced the actual ECU for a 115HP motor? I wonder if it's priced similarly to a Simonized flashing.
Paul

Post Reply