Looking at another prospective Tow Vehicle...

[Blessed]

There are a lot of things I like about the Ford Trucks... their suspension design in my opinion is best... they have a higher % of American made parts...

I'm not against Ford... I'm a fan of some of their stuff... but when it comes to engines... GM wins... I'm talking about small block V8's particularly the LS engine family which they just so happen to use in their trucks.

I hate what Obama has done and is doing to our Nation... I'm a Christian a Conservative and a Veteran...

I hate the fact that GM took the bailout... they should have went into bankruptcy...

The new GM Truck engines and transmissions are far better... and in my opinion the perfect truck would be a GM engine and transmission in a Ford chassis... I love the Ford look... the rack and pinion steering... suspension design... the newer Ford engines are hit or miss.... I don't care for their electronics.... the Ford Modular motors aren't even on the same playing field as GM's LS motors... look at the off-road and hot rod world... everyone uses GM LS motors.... no one builds a $80,000.00 sand rail and puts a Ford Triton motor in it...they all run LS motors.... most Hot Rods have LS motors... for a reason... you've still got your die hard Ford guys out there and the older Ford stuff was a little more versatile... GM LS engines dominate the aftermarket world... just like their older siblings did... the proven Chevy small block of yesterday is now a sequential port fuel injected CNC machined cathedral port aluminum headed hydraulic roller engineering masterpiece of epic proportions...

The major difference between the GM LS motor and Fords Modular motor is their valve train... the GM LS uses the simple proven push rod valve train design and Fords Triton motors have an overhead cam valve train that is complex and uses a vast number of additional moving parts and on top of that they added variable valve timing using what they call cam phasers... two long chains riding on plastic guides and an oil actuated watch mechanism controlling the cams! Too many moving parts = too many issues... that's just the mechanical aspect of it.... not to mention an electronic nightmare! No thanks! No wonder the ford ecm won't give trouble codes.... it's too busy trying to operate the cam phasers! GM's design is simple proven reliable and effective... see the picture below of Ford's Triton engine... see the chains and cam phasers at the top end of the chain loop.



Here's GM's LS.... this is an LS1... aluminum block... the 5.3 is an iron block but same timing setup

[Bamaman]

I worked for Ford for 24 years, and have had over 100 new cars--mostly for company visits. Very few repairs were ever done on my company cars--except brakes on Taurus'.

Now that I'm retired, I'm having to purchase my own cars. My F250 7.3 never had a warranty claim, and I've had it 13 years. I have three other late model cars--none of which have had a single warranty claim--Lexus, Civic SI & a year old Explorer.

I was having trouble picking up radio channels on the Explorer, and was having hissy fits thinking service had to be done on that Radio/Navigation system. I realized a 10" radio mast that screws into the Nav. antenna was missing--$16 item.

I was looking at the owners manual on the Explorer. I lost count of fuses at over 100. And I have no idea how many relays and CAN/BUS electronic modules there are on a modern, complicated vehicle. I just long for an old style simple vehicle--but we'll never see it. Just pray you don't have electrical problems because it'd take an electrical engineer to diagnose some system failures. And I've never seen an electrical engineer working in any auto dealership.

[badmoonrising]

Hmm. Mine, my friends, family and former customers that own Fords must be the luckiest sons a bitches ever since none of them has ever had an engine, transmission or electrical issue. Fords were all sold over 200k miles (some well over 300) with out a single issue, not even items that seem to go bad right and left on GMs like alternators, starters, transmissions and pretty much everything electrical like power window motors. High mileage Chevy V-8 are notorious for engine rod slap. My current Ford F150, despite being 18 years old next year approaching 160k miles doesn't burn a drop of oil between changes, transmission fluid is a clear as the day it came out of the factory and the body doesn't rust out like Dodges do in under 4 years and GM products do in under 6 years old. A Ford transmission failing is unheard of. A Ford engine failing is almost as rare as long as they are taken care of.

Alternatively, the people I know with Chevy and Dodge must be the unluckiest sons a bitches on the planet. Haven't known any of them that hasn't dropped a trans around 80-120k miles. Forget plowing snow with a GM or Dodge if you want to kill your profit buy buying transmissions every 2 seasons.

My marina manager has a 2015 Tahoe that she can't keep out of the dealer service center. Lift gate fell and nearly hit her son in the head, the supports failed when it was a few months old. Navigation system keeps going black, door locks are hit and miss. Been back for multiple recalls and she's now at the point of looking at Ford Raptors and trading the POS in.

GM's cars are terrible, have gotten much worse since the bailouts. Everyone I know that owns a 3 year or less GM has it back to the dealer more than all of my Fords combined in their first and second year. Case in point, the deadly HHR with the now famous Chinese made ignition switch that shuts the car off when you hit the slightest bump in the road, back to the dealer 2 dozen times. GM finally stopped building them. 2012 Malibu is catching up to the HHR in dealer visits. Malibus pre Obama were a lot better, every consumer magazine out there reflects the loss of GM quality post Obama.

Sorry. Ford trucks outsell and cost more than GM trucks for a reason, going on 39 years as a top seller and customer satisfaction that GM can't touch. Their new 6.7 diesels are the best out there, coupled with aluminum bodies that won't rust and the best transmission in the domestic auto industry.

Most fleet service vehicles and most police departments are going to Ford vehicles. Our county was getting killed trying to keep their Mailbus and Tahoes running, most had a service life of 4 -5 years before the transmissions failed. Went all to 4WD Taurus and Explorers instead. MD state police have also gone to all Ford vehicles.

Around here, even the tow trucks are Fords

[babock]

My brother is a used car dealer and runs an auto auction. He has one transmission shop that he keeps in business with all the Ford truck transmission repairs he sends them!

BTW, the total number of trucks that GM sells(Chevy and GMC) are almost identical to the number of Fords that are sold. For the model year 2014, Ford Truck sales went down 1% from the previous year where Chevy and GMC sales went up over 10%.

Will be interesting to see how many people start having problems with the supercharger on their V6 Fords in the upcoming years. Can't even buy a large V8 in an F-150 anymore.

I have multiple friends that are police officers. They all HATE the Ford Exploder! Too slow!

Sorry, but not changing your ATF for 160K is not the best idea in the world.

[badmoonrising]

My brother is a used car dealer and runs an auto auction. He has one transmission shop that he keeps in business with all the Ford truck transmission repairs he sends them!

This makes me chuckle.

BTW, the total number of trucks that GM sells(Chevy and GMC) are almost identical to the number of Fords that are sold. For the model year 2014, Ford Truck sales went down 1% from the previous year where Chevy and GMC sales went up over 10%.

Well since you can walk into a GM dealer and get thousands of Obamabucks off retail and they practically offer you hookers in the back room to buy their vehicles, yes. Like I said previously, the feds are subsidizing every GM sale. 2-3 years go by and you'll regret you bought GM. For the billions they got in the bailouts, I'd expect more than a 10 percent sales increase. Our local Chevy dealer has tons of leftovers, Ford not so much.

Will be interesting to see how many people start having problems with the supercharger on their V6 Fords in the upcoming years. Can't even buy a large V8 in an F-150 anymore.

Not a fan of turbo chargers on ANY make except diesels and not true, the 5.0 V-8s are readily available on every Ford truck currently made. Not sure where you heard that rumor. I was just looking at a 2015 F-150 at our dealer with the same, but updated tried and true 8 I have in my truck.

I have multiple friends that are police officers. They all HATE the Ford Exploder! Too slow!

This makes no sense since patrol vehicles are usually Taurus. No one in their right mind is going to pursue a fleeing vehicle in any sport utility. Around here, the Explorers are driven by the Chiefs/Supervisors. Get smarter cop friends.

Sorry, but not changing your ATF for 140K is not the best idea in the world.

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I said it was as clean as day 1. Meaning, the fluid shows no indication of burning, an early indication of transmission issues. Can occur soon after an ATF change on a transmission that is slipping. Changed every 30k for it's entire life. GM guys know this is about the time it's ready for another trans rebuild.

[babock]

In California, there are no Ford Taurus Highway Patrol cars. 50/50 mix between old Victorias and Explorers until you get up into the mountains where they are all Tahoes. Apparently, the 4WD Explorer is not the best in snow. Probably because it is basically a car since it is based on the Taurus chassis.

Try going into a Ford dealer and buy a F-150 with a 5.4L. They don't offer them anymore. Best option right now for a big V8 gas vehicle is a Toyota with a 5.7L.

[badmoonrising]

Hmm Ford's website has the 5.0 listed in the F-150 with bigger options for bigger trucks, just as they always have. the 4.6 and 5.4 were replaced with a 5.0. The newer 5.0 is equal in torque and HP to the older 5.4s.

The 6.7 diesel is the best out there among domestic trucks.

100k miles for a fluid change is BS, and if you read your manual, "severe duty" is 30k miles. That's as BS as "100k spark plugs" all manufacturers claim. Try changing plugs at 100k miles on any vehicle and you'll be stripping out threads. More so on a Dodge as they seems to like blowing out plugs at random.

Try changing the fluid on a GM trans at 100k and, well GM transmissions don't last 100k, so just change the transmission instead.

As for Toyota. I love my country too much to buy foreign. You get about equal reliability out of a Ford truck and won't have the engine issues their V-8 had for years. California never made any sense anyway, so that argument is invalid.

[JBO]

Will be interesting to see how many people start having problems with the supercharger on their V6 Fords in the upcoming years. Can't even buy a large V8 in an F-150 anymore.

I have multiple friends that are police officers. They all HATE the Ford Exploder! Too slow!

I assume you're referring to the twin-turbo Ecoboosts? They don't have superchargers on any standard models as far as I've seen. I own 2 Ecoboost 3.5 vehicles and will be getting a third next month. So far, my only complaint is my mileage hasn't been stellar on my F150. It was better when I got it 3years ago. Haven't been able to track down the issue. However, the power is great and fuel economy is decent. I bought it for the power. If I wanted fuel economy I'd have gotten a VW Jetta with "Clean Diesel" technology

In California, there are no Ford Taurus Highway Patrol cars. 50/50 mix between old Victorias and Explorers until you get up into the mountains where they are all Tahoes. Apparently, the 4WD Explorer is not the best in snow. Probably because it is basically a car since it is based on the Taurus chassis.

Most of the 4WD Explorers (Interceptor Utility) around here have the 3.5L Ecoboost engine and full-time AWD. I assume yours are the same, if they are interceptors. Basically, its an Explorer Sport without all the frills. It sounds like they have crappy tires on them if they can't get around in the snow. AFAIK, they are based on a similar platform as the Taurus but they have Volvo-engineering in the AWD. My Taurus SHO with 3.5L Ecoboost scoots around really well and handles snow great with Michelin Pilot tires.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto ... t_cruiser/

Also, I was watching Drugs Inc or something similar on TV the other night and could have sworn I saw multiple Taurus Interceptors in California used by LEOs. They weren't Highway Patrols, but local LEOs.

[badmoonrising]

Yep, I used to go hunting in the Pa. mountains with my Explorer. Handled deep snow about as well as anything else out there. Around here, perp flees into cornfield, gets caught by cops in a 4WD Taurus. Bad guys always got away when the cops used Malibus. All our Sheriff's deputies love the Taurus.

[babock]

I assume you're referring to the twin-turbo Ecoboosts?

Yes, that is what I meant.

[babock]

Bad guys always got away when the cops used Malibus.

Must make your head explode when you look at your driveway and you see your Obama supported Malibu sitting there. And, to make it worse you bought it in the year he got reelected.

Do the Dem supporters come to your door asking for donations when they see it?

[Blessed]

Being a Boating Forum and all... I called up Mercury Marine... guess who's engine blocks they use in the gasoline inboards.... Zero Ford... not one... they have in the past but not anymore.. he mentioned their current 6.2 is their own and the 4.5... the others...GM

Interesting...

[Blessed]

Called Jasper engines and transmission, they sell rebuilt engines and trasmissions. An unbiased independent automotive organization. I asked them what their number 1 selling engine is.

His answer: 3 valve 5.4L by far... he said we sell a bunch of em'!

I asked what is the weakness, what causes them to fail?

His answer: Cam phasers

[babock]

Being a Boating Forum and all... I called up Mercury Marine... guess who's engine blocks they use in the gasoline inboards.... Zero Ford... not one... they have in the past but not anymore.. he mentioned their current 6.2 is their own and the 4.5... the others...GM

Interesting...

Ford got out of the marine business in 95. They couldn't compete with GM and they had so many problems with their fuel injected systems, they decided to just bail. To this day, if you have a 94/95 fuel injected V8 with fuel injection that fails, you have to pull the system and install a carb. No parts available. They did a very poor job of adapting their automotive fuel injection to marine use.

[lakerunner]

Why are Californians all mouthy fuck heads?