Trailer MISAdventures

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BobG
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Trailer MISAdventures

#1 Post by BobG » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:30 am

I bought my boat and trailer as a package deal. The dealer is 1,100 miles from my home, but the price I got was about $10,000 less than anywhere else. Obviously worth the road trip.

So we tow the boat home. It is squirrely as a greased pig, all the way home. I remembered my BOATUS safety training course, and that this was a symptom of wrong tongue weight. I couldn't remember if it was too much or too little.

When we got home, and disconnected the trailer, it was obvious. The trailer had almost ZERO tongue weight. It FLEW off the truck! The dealer hooked it to my truck, and I didn't touch it until I got home. 1,100 miles of bouncing and swaying all over the place.

So I moved the front bumpers that the boat rests against, and got the tongue weight up to a few hundred pounds where it should be. Now it tows just fine. We took it to the lake four times. Each time, an easy tow, and easy launch and recovery, on nice smooth concrete ramps. After the fourth trip, my wife noticed that one tire was worn down to cords!!!

OK, so we have a wheel out of alignment. Off to the professional axle people, who tell me it can't be adjusted. The trailing arm is BENT.

Oh this is just the beginning. The trailer is rated at 2,999 pounds. I called the dealer, and they say that they do this so they don't have to put brakes on it. I checked, and Minnesota (where the boat was sold) AND Colorado both require brakes on any trailer over 3,000 pounds.

Of course, my boat is listed as 2,100 or so pounds, and the trailer is 880, so that's legal...right? Well, not exactly. The dealer added the third pontoon. I checked with the manufacturer, and they say that the boat as sold, weighs 3,000 pounds. And there's a 400 pound motor on it.

So, the dealer sold me a package that was ILLEGAL to tow off their lot. And the bouncy ride, with zero tongue weight probably caused the bent trailing arm. Will they do anything about it? Nope. They say "you probably hit something with it, and it's your fault. Too Bad."

So I have just received new axles, rated at 3,500 pounds each, and with brakes, on my own dime. Installing the electrical connections to the brakes will be easy for me. I will be taking up the rest of this with the Minnesota Attorney General's office.
Last edited by BobG on Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2012 Tahoe 24' Fish-n-Fun Tritoon, with Mercury 115 HP 4-Stroke
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ronb
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Re: Trailer Adventures

#2 Post by ronb » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:27 am

This makes me very unhappy, I also have bought a trailer from a dealer in ND (trailer was from a Newman dealership in Audobon, MN) that has tandem axles, each rated at 3000lb and it did, does not have trailer brakes. Of course we were offered them and we declined because the boat only weighs 2500lbs (dry, no motor, gear) but if the trailer weighs as much as yours (880-1000lbs) I am not legally overweight for not having brakes on the trailer for pulling to my nearest lake (Pelican Lake, MN).

goddammit, if I bought an illegal weight trailer/brakes package I am going to raise hell, time to check my laws. Calling NDDOT right now..
-ron
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BobG
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Re: Trailer Adventures

#3 Post by BobG » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:02 pm

ronb wrote:goddammit, if I bought an illegal weight trailer/brakes package I am going to raise hell, time to check my laws. Calling NDDOT right now..
-ron
Put it on a scale. I almost guarantee that you are not legal. It's the total weight of the boat, motor, trailer, and all your stuff on the boat, that must be under 3,000 pounds.

Of course the bozos at the dealership I bought from say "It's required to have brakes in some provinces of Canada", which may be totally true, but it's also required in Minnesota, and they know it perfectly well.
2012 Tahoe 24' Fish-n-Fun Tritoon, with Mercury 115 HP 4-Stroke
"Trine SS Cape" (Trying 2S Cape)
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ronb
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Re: Trailer Adventures

#4 Post by ronb » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:30 pm

After one failed call that ended in a loop of 'the extension you have dialed is not available, they do not have voicemail as part of their service, routing to main line" over and over and over again, I finally hung up and called the local Highway Patrol office who routed me to an officer.

Official word for me (ND)
Break away brakes or Safety cables required on all trailers.
If your trailer has brakes the break away box must be functional.
If your trailer does not have brakes you are required to have break away cables.
I do not need to worry about brakes in ND

Just called MN Department of Public Safety
https://dps.mn.gov
They say I am legal as well, if I was over 10k or 'for hire' that would be a different story but since I figure boat loaded with gear and the trailer is around 4k lbs they say I am 'good to go'

FWIW, I did call your state out of curiousity, I figured, WTH, I already called 2 out of 50 states, I may as well call another...

colorado state patrol
303-239-4500
they routed me to a public information officer
Trooper Reed
"anything over 3000lbs requires trailer brakes" (he left NO room for interpretation, my guess is that your elevation changes have a lot to do with it)

I did find this map which made me very unhappy for a while..
http://www.towshop.com/trailer_suppleme ... g_laws.htm

ImageImage

I think my trailer is still balanced very poorly with too much tongue weight but I haven't had an opportunity to take it to a scale yet. On my trailer the axle assembly is a movable unit that is bolted onto the frame. No trailing arms, just short very high rated leaf springs.

My trailer was built by Newmans Inc (http://www.newmansinc.com/)
which is in MN and if they sell only tandem axle trailers for pontoons over 20ft, and the lightest axle they sell under them in a 3k lb unit, you would certainly hope they are up to date on their local laws (and in my case it appears they are). Going by their current offerings (mine is a 2012 model) it must be a 1WBS2224-2I which does not include brakes, but the other 2 22-24ft trailers do..

sorry to hear about your shafting.
-ron

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Re: Trailer Adventures

#5 Post by curtiscapk » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:10 pm

I have the two others...... :donno :donno
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BobG
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Re: Trailer Adventures

#6 Post by BobG » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:58 pm

ronb wrote:Just called MN Department of Public Safety
https://dps.mn.gov
They say I am legal as well, if I was over 10k or 'for hire' that would be a different story but since I figure boat loaded with gear and the trailer is around 4k lbs they say I am 'good to go'
That's really funny, because I actually looked up the LAWS in the state of Minnesota, and they say:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.67
Subd. 3.Trailer, semitrailer.(a) No trailer or semitrailer with a gross vehicle weight of 3,000 or more pounds, or a gross weight that exceeds the empty weight of the towing vehicle, may be drawn on a highway unless it is equipped with brakes that are adequate to control the movement of and to stop and hold the trailer or semitrailer. A surge brake on a trailer or semitrailer meets the requirement of this paragraph for brakes adequate to stop and hold the trailer or semitrailer.

(b) No trailer or semitrailer with a gross vehicle weight of more than 3,000 pounds may be drawn on a highway unless it is equipped with brakes that are so constructed that they are adequate to stop and hold the trailer or semitrailer whenever it becomes detached from the towing vehicle.

(c) Except as provided in paragraph (d), paragraph (a) does not apply to:

(1) a towed custom service vehicle drawn by a motor vehicle that is equipped with brakes that meet the standards of subdivision 5, provided that such a towed custom service vehicle that exceeds 30,000 pounds gross weight may not be drawn at a speed of more than 45 miles per hour;

(2) a motor vehicle drawn by another motor vehicle that is equipped with brakes that meet the standards of subdivision 5; and

(3) a disabled vehicle while being towed to a place of repair.

(d) Vehicles described in paragraph (c), clause (2), may be operated without complying with paragraph (a) only if the trailer or semitrailer does not exceed the following gross weights:

(1) 3,000 pounds while being drawn by a vehicle registered as a passenger automobile, other than a pickup truck as defined in section 168.002, subdivision 26;

(2) 12,000 pounds while being drawn by any other motor vehicle.
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"Trine SS Cape" (Trying 2S Cape)
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Bamaman
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Re: Trailer MISAdventures

#7 Post by Bamaman » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:42 pm

3,000 lb. gross weight limits w/o brakes is law in 33 states.

Pontoon boats with motor and trailer will weigh just over 3,000 lbs., which makes most pontoon boats illegal to be on the road with out brakes and breakaway cables.

But how often is someone called out by "the law" for a pleasure boat on the road? Not often.

Fargo, North Dakota and most of the Midwest is so flat that trailer brakes are not really needed as long as you've got an adequate tow vehicle (V8 SUV or 1/2 ton p/u or larger.) If I lived in Montana, you couldn't get me to tow without brakes.

But don't put a 3,000 pound load behind a marginal tow vehicle, like a small front wheel drive vehicle. Any vehicle not rated for a 5,000 lb. load doesn't have any business with a pontoon boat and trailer without brakes.

The old surge brakes still do a better job for less money than electric brakes. And stainless steel disc brakes are preferred, especially in salt water.
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Re: Trailer MISAdventures

#8 Post by kryptonite » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:18 pm

I have a 2008 Tahoe 22' Vista elite (2 toons) with a 75 hp 4 stroke (which weighs the same as a 115). Just weighed it the other day full of gear and fuel.

Whole trailer and boat weights somewhere around 4,500#

Weight on the trailer axles = 4,100#

Tongue weight = 400#


I have a bear trailer with 2 x 3,500# axles Carry weight rating of 5,800# Total GVW of 7,000# So trailer weights 1,200#.
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Re: Trailer MISAdventures

#9 Post by kryptonite » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:30 pm

So are we talking about a single axle trailer or double??????????????? You never say in your post. If you have a 24' boat on a single axle trailer, Holy shit that's crazy.
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ronb
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Re: Trailer MISAdventures

#10 Post by ronb » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:56 pm

He says he bought new axles (plural) in his original post.
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rbtnt
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Re: Trailer MISAdventures

#11 Post by rbtnt » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:04 pm

I think there is a state or two that require brakes on all trailer axles. I'm not saying this is a good idea, but check the states you will be towing.

Here is a link to a site that has links to summaries of towing laws.

http://www.mtboats.com/towing/towinginfo.html
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BobG
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Re: Trailer MISAdventures

#12 Post by BobG » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:58 am

kryptonite wrote:So are we talking about a single axle trailer or double???????????????
You're right, it WOULD be crazy to run a single axle!
No, I just bought TWO Flexiride 3,500 pound axles with electric brakes, from Southwest Wheel. By comparison, it looks like the axles that came with my trailer are 2,000 pound axles...which means that with a 3,400 pound boat (with motor) and 880 pound trailer, that I am exceeding the ratings of the axles.

The kicker is that the trailer is totally legal...if you don't put a boat on it. The dealer sent me out the door with an illegal configuration. Oh, and they build the trailers on-site. Sure, the trailers have a different company name on them, than the dealer, but they admitted to me that they build them right there, and the same guy owns both companies.

Here's another fun fact. If your trailer/load is over 80 inches wide, you're supposed to have three red running lights in the back, between the turn-signals. This trailer is 74 inches wide (not counting the fenders - it's a judgement call). Once you put the boat on it, it's 96 inches wide. The trailer is pretty much legal without a boat, but it's NOT legal with a boat on it. Gee, these guys saved a whole 15 bucks in parts and maybe 10 bucks in labor there!

So, I am towing back and forth over Berthoud Pass, and through the Eisenhower tunnel - to the west slope of Colorado, on a regular basis. You bet your sweet bippy, that I want brakes on my trailer! And here, the Colorado State Patrol DOES do safety inspections occasionally, and they are very much aware of the 3,000 pound rule - and enforce it.
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"Trine SS Cape" (Trying 2S Cape)
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Re: Trailer MISAdventures

#13 Post by waterlab » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:43 am

Don't think I would buy a hot dog from the dealer that you did business with, my boat and landscape trailers all have 3 marker lights on the back between the taillights. That dealer may want to look in a boating catalog, they sell light kits for trailers over 80 inches and under. The more you hear about dealers saying "BYE" after the sale is over, the more you wonder how many aren't scumbags

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ronb
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Re: Trailer MISAdventures

#14 Post by ronb » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:38 am

I will conceed that I bought my entire setup as a newb, I will have brakes on my next trailer (or retrofit this trailer and use the current axles for something else). Luckily as stated where I live/drive in ND and the part of MN that I tow in are really, really, really flat. I am pretty sure I can see Canada from my back door...(joking aside, from 20 miles outside of Fargo, I can count the raised lights over the interstate) its flat and the pickup far outweighs the boat/trailer combo, plus the with the tongue weight being so much heavier than it is supposed to be, I get good weight transfer.

View when getting on the lake, you can see NO elevation change on the horizon...
IMG-20120625-01439.jpg
IMG-20120625-01439.jpg (47.76 KiB) Viewed 3346 times
And my trailer does have the 3 lights in the rear, although I wish they had been LED instead of incandescent...
IMG-20120625-01474.jpg
IMG-20120625-01474.jpg (65.9 KiB) Viewed 3345 times
-ron
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waterlab
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Re: Trailer MISAdventures

#15 Post by waterlab » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:43 am

Looks like the same lights on my Sun Trackers trailer, not the brightest but fine at night when it counts, unless someone following me is texting

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