Jurors find boat manufacturer partly liable

[HandymanHerb]

If you had people smart enough not to get on jury duty, this shit wouldn't happen, then again I wished they were in charge of the lottery as I get picked every frickin year.

I served 3 years in a roll and said no more after being the only man on a all women jury and was looking forward to being locked away in a motel with them, I could see this trail lasting a while.

But no,the first witness the state needed wasn't there and it was over, that was the end of that, I said no more and finely they stopped calling me, but now Mom been called twice in two years but she didn't make it but they haven't come after her yet for not serving.

You think death would get you out of jury duty!!!

But if we had more people out there with common sense this wouldn't happen, even if I'm putting a coke between my legs I check the lid, if it's coffee I'm checking it for sure and I like my coffee hot, not warm.

But in that case McD's could have got out cheap and their Lawyers screwed up, could if have been to get more fees fighting the case in court.

[toondog]

How many people have hurt someone by backing up over them with a car? Did they sue the car and tire manufacture? Looking at the statistics above, I would say that more people are hurt by cars backing up than boats. If nothing else, the person driving the boat should have been ordered to take a boating safety course, but I don't thing that was the point of the plaintiffs lawyers. Stick it to big business with deep pockets. Who cares if it is just another cost passed on to the consumers.

I just got this in the mail Today. Look for the price of a simple lawn mower to go up too.
And speaking of lawn mowers. When I first bought my riding mower, it drove me nuts. It had so many safety features, it would constantly shut down. Get off the seat, shut down. When blade was engaged Put in reverse, shut down. Brake on , shut down. Not in gear, shut down.

[PGIC]

You got some of the numbers a little jumbled.

Mercury marine and sea ray were found 83% at fault and the driver 17 % at fault.

Actual findings were 66 percent Mercury and Sea ray with Brochtrup and the driver EACH at 17 percent.

Now how many boats are in the water each year. In 2008 there were only 176 propeller accidents with 166 injuries and 24 deaths. That's the whole country. And like said above, I'll bet almost everyone involved someone dong something stupid. It may even be lower, I got this off the U.S. Coast Guard site. Those first statistics are way off the Coast guard numbers. 83 accidents, 5 deaths and 80 injuries from propeller strikes.

You supplied an image of USCG Table 17, that is the wrong table. USCG records accidents as a series of events. For example, Event 1 boat hits submerged log, Event 2 person ejected, Event 3 person struck by propeller. Table 17 is for Event 1 stats only. Those are people that were in the water and struck (not anybody that fell out and was struck later per USCG definitions, but we do recognize there may be some of them in there too).

Your Table 17 says Primary Accident Type in the top left corner. That means Event 1 statistics only.

Table 18 provides stats for all three events.
See Table 18 on page 36 (its a 3.8 megabyte download)
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/Pub ... s_2008.pdf

The actual stats for USCG reported prop accidents are: Event 1=83, Event 2=80, Event 3=18. The event occurred 181 times, 21 fatalities, 176 people injured beyond normal first aid care. Those are somewhat in line with the first set of stats you provided, but not in exact agreement.

Both sides of the issue disagree on the percentage of accidents actually reported. USCG says something around 10 percent of all boating accidents are reported, they say almost all fatalities are reported, and they say the more serious the accident is, the more likely it is to be reported. The boating industry says almost all prop accidents are reported because they are serious injuries. Propeller safety advocates also point to some propeller accidents not being identified as such in the USCG BARD database.

We provide full coverage of the Brochtrup v. Mercury Marine and Sea Ray case at:
http://www.rbbi.com/pgic/pcases/brochtr ... peller.htm

Gary
Propeller Guard Information Center

[BassFrequency]

You got some of the numbers a little jumbled.

Mercury marine and sea ray were found 83% at fault and the driver 17 % at fault.

Actual findings were 66 percent Mercury and Sea ray with Brochtrup and the driver EACH at 17 percent.

Now how many boats are in the water each year. In 2008 there were only 176 propeller accidents with 166 injuries and 24 deaths. That's the whole country. And like said above, I'll bet almost everyone involved someone dong something stupid. It may even be lower, I got this off the U.S. Coast Guard site. Those first statistics are way off the Coast guard numbers. 83 accidents, 5 deaths and 80 injuries from propeller strikes.

You supplied an image of USCG Table 17, that is the wrong table. USCG records accidents as a series of events. For example, Event 1 boat hits submerged log, Event 2 person ejected, Event 3 person struck by propeller. Table 17 is for Event 1 stats only. Those are people that were in the water and struck (not anybody that fell out and was struck later per USCG definitions, but we do recognize there may be some of them in there too).

Your Table 17 says Primary Accident Type in the top left corner. That means Event 1 statistics only.

Table 18 provides stats for all three events.
See Table 18 on page 36 (its a 3.8 megabyte download)
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/Pub ... s_2008.pdf

The actual stats for USCG reported prop accidents are: Event 1=83, Event 2=80, Event 3=18. The event occurred 181 times, 21 fatalities, 176 people injured beyond normal first aid care. Those are somewhat in line with the first set of stats you provided, but not in exact agreement.

Both sides of the issue disagree on the percentage of accidents actually reported. USCG says something around 10 percent of all boating accidents are reported, they say almost all fatalities are reported, and they say the more serious the accident is, the more likely it is to be reported. The boating industry says almost all prop accidents are reported because they are serious injuries. Propeller safety advocates also point to some propeller accidents not being identified as such in the USCG BARD database.

We provide full coverage of the Brochtrup v. Mercury Marine and Sea Ray case at:
http://www.rbbi.com/pgic/pcases/brochtr ... peller.htm

Gary
Propeller Guard Information Center

Alright, who let this guy in here

[badmoonrising]

Wasn't me ...

[HandymanHerb]

Great we got a bunch of lawyers who took it to court three times, it should have been thrown out, did the manufacturer make the boat go in reverse.

Why didn't they sue the owner for not putting a prop guard on, Oh that's right He didn't have any money.

[toondog]

Jacob Brochtrup vs. Sea Ray Boats and Mercury Marine propeller injury case found Brunswick 66 percent responsible on 5 April 2010. Brunswick ordered to pay $3.8 million. See our coverage at Brochtrup Propeller Case.

OK, I heard the radio interview early that morning and remember the percentages wrong. I did get one of the 17%s correct though. Even at 66%, I still think it's wrong. Some activities are dangerous and people are expected to use caution. When your hunting, you make sure your hunting buddy is not in front of your prey when you shoot. (unless he's been cheating with your wife. "oops...,my bad" ) As captain of a vessel, you are responsible for your passengers. Big ship or little boat, it doesn't matter.
That said, I do think that "safety propeller" on your site would be a much better solution than a prop guard. Looks like there are plenty of people ready to take advantage of this ruling.

http://www.rbbi.com/pgic/#links


OK, here is table 18

[toondog]

Great we got a bunch of lawyers who took it to court three times, it should have been thrown out, did the manufacturer make the boat go in reverse.

Why didn't they sue the owner for not putting a prop guard on, Oh that's right He didn't have any money.

They could make boat seats like my stupid riding mower. Have sensor in every seat. If prop is engaged and someone stands, then the motor would shut off. That would make for a great day on the water.

[toondog]

Here is a video of Jacob Brochtrup. I feel for the guy, but still hope this verdict gets overturned.

[badmoonrising]

"Threw the boat into reverse"...if I was on that jury I would have decided the operater was 100 percent liable. Obviously, they put Obama voters (who know nothing about anything) on the jury.

No offense to the poor guy, put he doesn't exactly sound/act like the brightest bulb in the box either. Doubt his friends were any smarter.

[FloterBoter]

PGIC> The boating industry says almost all prop accidents are reported because they are serious injuries.

i would disagree with them. a lot of kids get leg/feet cuts on the prop when the engine isn't running.
those may not be life threatening or "serious", but they are still accidents with injuries.
too many people allow kids to climb on the motor or swim around it.
i am NOT a fan of the pontoon industry's moving toward rear entries.

[HandymanHerb]

That's the propguard went on mine because the kids love to swim under and around the engine too, I didn't want to have them kick the prop and get a cut.

Now that still wouldn't stop me from backing in to them and hurting them, so I wouldn't start the engine until I knew where everyone was and they were seated.

But I guess were stupid doing it that way.

[PGIC]

PGIC> The boating industry says almost all prop accidents are reported because they are serious injuries.

i would disagree with them. a lot of kids get leg/feet cuts on the prop when the engine isn't running.
those may not be life threatening or "serious", but they are still accidents with injuries.
too many people allow kids to climb on the motor or swim around it.
i am NOT a fan of the pontoon industry's moving toward rear entries.

They (the industry players) were referring to USCG BARD (Boating Accident Report Database) reported boat accidents. Certain boating boating accidents are to be reported as required by Federal Law. There are several criteria outlining exactly which accidents are to be reported, but the personal injury threshold is "a person dies" or " a person disappears from under the vessel under circumstances that indicate death" or "a person is injured and requires medical treatment beyond first aid".

Many of the kids that get nonthreatening or non-serious prop cuts to their feet and legs when the engine isn't running are either just treated with first aid (accident is not to be reported) or a few stitches (accident is to be reported). Some propeller safety advocates point to many of those receiving stitches not actually being reported in the database.

Some propeller safety advocates, including us, strongly disagree with the industry's claim that all serious propeller accidents are reported in USCG's BARD database. We have identified many well documented propeller accidents that are not in BARD, plus others that are, but are not labeled as propeller accidents.

In 2001 USCG funded a study by the Emergency Nurses Association (ENA) on the under reporting of boating accidents in general (not just prop accidents). Per minutes of ENA's report given at the National Association of Boating Law Administrators (NASBLA) Boating Accident Investigating Reporting and Analysis meeting in April 2005:

"There are 18 hospitals collecting data, spread across the U.S. In the first year, 171 had treated patients for injuries sustained in boating accidents, but none of the patients filed a BAR (Boating Accident Report) even though they were told they were required to do so.”

That is a reporting frequency of zero.

Back more specifically to pontoon boats, one of the risk areas is allowing kids, youth or adults to ride on the bow dangling their feet into the water when the boat is underway. There have been several instances in recent years in which a pontoon boat hit a wake, stopped suddenly or otherwise ejected "leg danglers', and they were struck by the prop as the pontoon boat went over them.

Gary
Propeller Guard Information Center

[HandymanHerb]

Back more specifically to pontoon boats, one of the risk areas is allowing kids, youth or adults to ride on the bow dangling their feet into the water when the boat is underway. There have been several instances in recent years in which a pontoon boat hit a wake, stopped suddenly or otherwise ejected "leg danglers', and they were struck by the prop as the pontoon boat went over them.

There's not many toons you can do that on now days, but I sure they a few just like the ones hanging over bow-riders, a guy I knew got killed like that after to many beers.

But then there stupid people doing stupid stuff all over, so are we going to made all tubs soft rubber and walk around in air bag suit???

[BassFrequency]

Herb I think PGIC just joined to get technical on this subject