A folding travel trailer on top of a 28' pontoon boat.

[RonKMiller]

I know its ron sorry

Hey, at least you didn't call me Juan.

[woolznaz]

RonK,
I'm also an AZ tooner. I've been following your thread and I bet I'm not the only one who is looking forward to your build. Now that you have the actual boat, I bet it's really going to come together for you.

This is a very cool (but a bit crazy ) idea and I love it. Can't wait to see your progress. Thanks in advance for keeping us posted as it moves forward.

That's good to know you're nearby. I'll plan on your help when it makes it maiden voyage at Lake Pleasant - I'm pretty sure that's the closest body of water to Tucson that will work. (Beside the 100 by 50 yard pond that I have about 200 yards from where it will be stored)

I'll by the beer and we'll plan on drinking heavily right before the launch. Does 911 work at Lake Pleasant?

I never said anything about helping! Actually, I'd love to. I live about 35 minutes from Lake Pleasant and 30 minutes from Bartlett Lake. Either would work great for your maiden voyage. Again, looking forward to your updates as the project goes along. If you want to explore either lake between now and then, we'll hook up my boat and go. Now, get to work!

[RonKMiller]

Thanks for the nice offer - since I'm a TOTAL toon newb your experience will no doubt be VERY helpful! Consider yourself conscripted.

All I gotta' do now is drive to Roosevelt, put on four new tires, re-do the electric brakes, re-wire the trailer, grease the bearings and drive it back to Tucson. Like I said - two projects.

Good thing I've got a one ton dually to tow with - lots of really steep hills, narrow two lane and curves for only 140 miles... Roosevelt to Globe is a piece o' cake - the rest....

[hoosiername]

Oh yea, now we be talking !

I thought of taking 2 pop up campers, and removing the axles and frames.

Place them 90 degrees to the deck so the slide out beds are out over the water.


Go Dawq, send pics.


Bouyancy is easy to figure, equations are easy, basically a boat will hold up the weight equal to the total water displaced...easy to figure with consistent cross sections like tubes.


Floating camping..whooo hoooo !

[RonKMiller]

Oh yea, now we be talking !

I thought of taking 2 pop up campers, and removing the axles and frames.

Place them 90 degrees to the deck so the slide out beds are out over the water.


Go Dawq, send pics.


Bouyancy is easy to figure, equations are easy, basically a boat will hold up the weight equal to the total water displaced...easy to figure with consistent cross sections like tubes.


Floating camping..whooo hoooo !

Very cursory drawing: WARNING: I'm better with wrenches than a mechanical pencil. Comments, criticism, snide remarks welcome. My momma' always said she didn't raise any good lookin' boys - but we ain't DUMB.

The official name of the boat/pontoon/camper/houseboat/whatever is "Puttin' on the Ritz".

It may look heavily biased toward the rear, but the cg of the trailer is actually well forward of the axle. Anyway, since I can roll the trailer fore and aft, permanent positioning for the wheel clamps and hitch post will be easy to change.

Ritz drawing.jpg (137.92 KiB) Viewed 3197 times

folded.jpg (11.21 KiB) Viewed 3186 times

[GregF]

It is a little more complicated than simply the displacement. When you start putting that weight up above the waterline and out beyond the pontoons you have to look at where the center of gravity is. Things like tipping point become the most serious concern. Add some wind in there too. Upside down at night inside a camper that is underwater, is not an experience I want to have.
I have some friends who flipped a Carolina Skiff at night and they all feel like they were lucky to get out from under an open boat in the dark.
If you are pulling out the sliders in a camper over the water you better also have some matching outriggers with big assed floats on them.
(maybe inflatables)
Maybe a couple of those big pull toys would work but I would certainly want something.

[RonKMiller]

It is a little more complicated than simply the displacement. When you start putting that weight up above the waterline and out beyond the pontoons you have to look at where the center of gravity is. Things like tipping point become the most serious concern. Add some wind in there too. Upside down at night inside a camper that is underwater, is not an experience I want to have.
I have some friends who flipped a Carolina Skiff at night and they all feel like they were lucky to get out from under an open boat in the dark.
If you are pulling out the sliders in a camper over the water you better also have some matching outriggers with big assed floats on them.
(maybe inflatables)
Maybe a couple of those big pull toys would work but I would certainly want something.

Just to reiterate, Greg is talking about a "pop up" camper (the previous poster thought would be a great idea) with outrigger bedrooms which is something I am NOT considering - I would appreciate it if we could stay on topic here.

Speculation about other potential designs should be started in another thread. Staying in a Chalet is just as comfortable as a full size RV - only smaller. http://www.ChaletRV.com.

(and as stated previously I am not a fan of "pop up" campers. They SUCK in serious wind and rain storms and would never be suitable for marine use unless you had a death wish) I had one and it was a major PITA. They cost about $8K new vs. $22K for a Chalet. You always get what you pay for...)

[GregF]

You can still have center of gravity issues when you are putting this on top of a pontoon. Wind will be the variable but a sharp turn could spoil your day. Leaving it up on wheels only makes it worse.

[RonKMiller]

I've been an FAA Certified Commercial Pilot for 28 years. I know a few things about weight and balance. I do it every day and people's lives depend on me doing it correctly. I haven't let them down yet.

You've got to remember the total weight of the Chalet trailer is only 1950 lbs. dry - and it is FOLDED when moving.

The same size 16 foot Airstream weighs in at 3,500 lbs. dry.

Even if the roof was left up the 4 folding sections sections are extremely light and would have a minuscule effect on cg - although they would present significant sail area - but certainly no more than a "typical" pontoon houseboat cabin and probably less since they have a better aerodynamic profile than a cube. They are made from luan, 1" of styrofoam and a thin FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) exterior.

This tritoon (which according to what I've read so far is more stable side to side than a double hull pontoon) is CURRENTLY rated by the manufacturer on the data placard for 12 passengers or 1750 lbs. (at an average of 145 lbs?? but then again this was in the 1980's when it was built - I use an average now of 195 lbs. for passengers) ...and yes, this figure already takes into account the weight of the motor (500 lbs) and fuel, 20 gallons. (126 lbs.) and other miscellaneous required running gear at 524 lbs. Besides the 200 lb. overage (at this point) - with all of the trailer weight centered and especially well anchored (another HUGE factor in stability) in the EXACT dead center fore and aft as well as port to starboard why would this be any different than 12 people? If anything it would be MUCH more stable and less prone to pitch and roll. Almost all of the heavy items inside and external to the trailer are carried just slightly above axle height (axle, springs, wheels, tires, box steel frame, hitch, folding entry steps, water, propane, two batteries, food, spare tire, hot water tank, storage, tools) or only about 18" above the deck of the boat. My best estimate is that this is about 75% of the 1950 lbs, with the other 25% carried perhaps a foot higher. However I'll assume that I'm wrong and that all the weight is 18" + 12" or 30" above the deck. This is still equal to or lower than the average human with the cg being the naval. This particular trailer - with it's Styrofoam composite walls and roof - has an inherently low center of gravity and is particularly well suited for this application.

With me shedding almost all of the current above deck amenities - 3 tables, 6 couches, galley, sink, roofs, head, refrigerator, attached tent, side panels, wood cupboards, storage closet and door, carpet, etc., most of the railing and 525 lbs. of rotted plywood I've just increased my margin by approximately 1750 lbs. Now I can safely carry 1750 PLUS 1750 or 3500 lbs. As an added benefit I can save the serious weight of a heavy duty marine battery for the engine since I've already got two deep cycles on the RV. I'm not the least bit concerned with having a high capacity cranking battery since Honda engines turn over and start just by sneezing. I don't even need a heavy generator and extra gas can since I've already got 90 watts of solar installed on the trailer's roof along with a high end 1,000 watt inverter.

Throw in 10 gallons of propane at 25 lbs. per bottle (50 lbs.) and 40 gallons of water at (320 lbs. carried on the deck under the trailer) and I'm fully supplied for a week's trip.

The math is pretty simple:

3,500 lbs. - minus 1950 for the trailer equals 1550 lbs. reserve

minus my new Nida Core deck at 126 lbs. equals 1424 lbs. reserve.

minus 370 lbs. for propane and water equals 1054 lbs. reserve for passengers, food and clothes which will usually be two at 315 lbs. plus 50 lbs. and once in a great while two more passengers. I'm good to go with a reserve of roughly 680 lbs. Of course as the fuel, water and propane burn off (and the food is consumed) during the trip that reserve will increase even more. Assuming I burn half of that during a week long trip (273 lbs.) I am running at an average of almost a 1,000 lb. reserve. (except I forgot the weight of the beer ice chest)

Works for me.

If anyone has anything to add or has any recommendations I'm all ears. I encourage "devil's advocates". Just back it up with sound logic instead of idle speculation.

TAKING THE AXLE AND/OR WHEELS OFF THE TRAILER DEFEATS THE WHOLE REASON FOR DOING THIS. I WANT TO USE MY TRAILER YEAR 'ROUND ON WATER OR LAND. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN CREATING A FLOATING REDNECK LOVE SHACK. (that's "Dueling Banjos" from the movie Deliverance)

[GregF]

Rock on dude.

"Farewell and adieu to you, Spanish Ladies"

[woolznaz]

Uhhhh, Ron, have you given the project any serious thought?

OK, I'm obviously kidding. From reading every word of this thread so far, I have to say I think you have this thing pretty well figured out. I love this idea and I'm impressed with the planning that has gone in to it. Looking forward to the project. I just love it when a great project comes together and I don't have to work on it or spend money on it!!!

Keep us posted.

[mike]

what about cutting some ramps down into the toon for the wheels to drop down into when its in place, perhaps even with the camper sitting flush on the deck?

[RonKMiller]

Now THAT's an interesting idea... the only issue is that I would have to cut and modify the frame and that's a whole 'nother can of worms requiring a marine engineer, time and a boat load (groan) of money. ... but boy howdy - if you were to do this on a commercial basis that would be the ticket. Good thinking!

I spoke with my local Coast Guard contact today (yup, believe it or not in Tucson) and he is intrigued and very supportive - as long as I don't modify any portion of the pontoons, frame or transom and keep the weight and horse power within the manufacturers specs. It doesn't hurt that he was an FAA Controller for 25 years - we talk the same language.

He pretty much said I can do anything I want ABOVE the deck as long as I can prove to him that it won't fall off.

I plan on using these http://www.condor-lift.com motorcycle wheel chocks - which I am familiar with since I already have one - to secure each wheel along with side mount nylon wheel tie downs used in the towing industry. They have a wide version of the chock which should fit the trailer tires perfectly. The chock is rated for 3,000 pounds per WHEEL and the working strength of the nylon tie down is 5,000 lbs with a breaking strength of 10,000 lbs. I'll also be securing the hitch with a serious base plate welded to the frame under the deck. More on that to come but I've got a design in my noggin' which will take a bit more thought.

If that doesn't convince him it won't secure a 2,000 lb. trailer...

The overall idea is to use readily available components that I can more or less bolt on.

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wheel tie down.jpg (10.87 KiB) Viewed 3046 times

[RonKMiller]

Uhhhh, Ron, have you given the project any serious thought?

OK, I'm obviously kidding. From reading every word of this thread so far, I have to say I think you have this thing pretty well figured out. I love this idea and I'm impressed with the planning that has gone in to it. Looking forward to the project. I just love it when a great project comes together and I don't have to work on it or spend money on it!!!

Keep us posted.

You're giving me WAY too much credit - this is just "on the fly" thinking and surely to evolve a hundred times - but thanks for the encouragement! I'll count on you being at the maiden voyage at Lake Pleasant and since you're living this project vicariously - and live in Carefree - bring some champagne instead of beer... Because there is no...

wait for it...


wait for it...













FREE LAUNCH!

[GregF]

Couldn't you just cut a well in the decking between 2 stringers for the wheels. (not modifying the frame)

I would reinforce them with an additional stringer on each side, maybe 2x2 square tube instead of the typical "Z" channel.
That is what all the stringers are in my boat.