Pontoon took a Dive - under water

[teecro]

Curious what HP is the boat rated for?

My first impression is that without adequate HP your motor has no power for lifting the bow and as you add passengers with any attempt at speed you are just making the plowing worse.

Perhaps simply carrying some extra fuel in the very back may help?

Spec says 90hp, which in my opinion is really hard to believe.

Hard to believe in which direction? A 90 HP motor rating for an older 20-foot pontoon sounds very realistic to me....

[willyg1997]

The sticker I believe is 10 people, don't remember the max weight is of hand. Normally we have between 4 to 6 adults.

When anchored empty the back of the tube is aprox 1/4 under water and the front is even less. The line above the center of the tube was from big upside down sitting in water for a period of time.

The new furniture is very light. Plus with the fiberglass flooring the pontoon is less weight then oem weight. The weight with motor is around1500#.

When loadded with 8 adults the back water line is about 2" below center line and the front is around 4" below center line.

So I think the level height is ok. For the most part.

Well, here's what I suggest.... As people board, remind them that your boat is *more* than a pontoon boat - it's a SUB-TOON! No extra charge for the thrill of nose-diving! Self-Cleaning Front End!

Lmfao, that would work good for a bunch of drunken pirates. But, it is far from what I would tell my grandson. Go figure. But thanks for the input.

[willyg1997]

Curious what HP is the boat rated for?

My first impression is that without adequate HP your motor has no power for lifting the bow and as you add passengers with any attempt at speed you are just making the plowing worse.

Perhaps simply carrying some extra fuel in the very back may help?

Spec says 90hp, which in my opinion is really hard to believe.

Hard to believe in which direction? A 90 HP motor rating for an older 20-foot pontoon sounds very realistic to me....

I guess the diving has got me a little skittish with the 25 hp. Just seamed like over kill to me. But with a heavy 4 stroke and a good trim might be the ticket. Tnx

[teecro]

... I guess the diving has got me a little skittish with the 25 hp. Just seamed like over kill to me. But with a heavy 4 stroke and a good trim might be the ticket. Tnx

I can't fault you for being spooked when your in charge of the souls onboard.... I mildly tucked the front end once with 4 adults and 3 kids and it was mainly because I was going too slow was not paying attention to weight distribution; after all I was just barely past idle....

Your work looks good and generally I don't think you built an unsafe boat but I firmly believe that you are underpowered when you've got more than a couple of passengers on board.

One thing I'd look closely at is the max load allowed as the 10 passenger rating was based on the OE configuration and weight and likely equated to a 160 pound at the most passenger.

[willyg1997]

... I guess the diving has got me a little skittish with the 25 hp. Just seamed like over kill to me. But with a heavy 4 stroke and a good trim might be the ticket. Tnx

I can't fault you for being spooked when your in charge of the souls onboard.... I mildly tucked the front end once with 4 adults and 3 kids and it was mainly because I was going too slow was not paying attention to weight distribution; after all I was just barely past idle....

Your work looks good and generally I don't think you built an unsafe boat but I firmly believe that you are underpowered when you've got more than a couple of passengers on board.

One thing I'd look closely at is the max load allowed as the 10 passenger rating was based on the OE configuration and weight and likely equated to a 160 pound at the most passenger.

Reliving the experience, this makes the most sense. With people on board the pontoon is like a teeter totter, especially when slowing down even at a slow speed. No weight in the back. Like a boat or any other watercraft, the trim helps control the front end. I have a pleasure boat, speed boat, and two pwc. And I know what trimming does. I didn't think the trim would have an effect on the large barge. But now I understand it does, including the added weight of a bigger motor.

Again lesson learned.. Thanks!!!

I guess what I needed was a boot in the right direction.

Thanks to all that has helped me with this. I have two months to talk me wife into a new 4stroke. Thinking a 60hp .

And ya, when there is only two on the toon it never nose dives. Rides like a go-kart. A 25hp go-kart that is.

Thanks again..
Bill

[NonHyphenAmerican]

My 22' SunCatcher is rated at 115hp, I've got a 90hp Yamaha.

If you're going to upgrade the HP, go for a 90 hp Yamaha.

I'm guessing you have too much weight forward, thus the nose diving.

I was out on the lake one day with family not too long after getting the toon.

Two adults forward fishing, plus three that stepped forward to "Supervise", and we decide to move spots.

We weren't moving fast, just 2-3 mph.

We hit a wave and the front submerged enough to wash down the deck.

There was surprise until I pointed out that with the three of them forward, plus the other two, that over half the weight capacity of the boat was forward.

I then told them to move aft and sit down unless they wanted to get wet again.

[ralph]

Willy,

I have a 20' pontoon but the diameter of the logs are 27" which puts me higher out of the water (90HP outboard too). Only once I had 6 adults and 3 kids on board. Never again.

I didn't plow with that load but I wasn't very comfortable with that much of a load.

You didn't mention how the boat performed with a lighter load (you and your wife/g-friend).

You may have just too many people on board. You can't really measure the load with the number of people, you have to consider the weight.

Do you still have problems with you and one other on board?

[teecro]

... Thanks to all that has helped me with this. I have two months to talk me wife into a new 4stroke. Thinking a 60hp .

And ya, when there is only two on the toon it never nose dives. Rides like a go-kart. A 25hp go-kart that is.

Let us help you with that too.... It is not going to be a lie or stretch of the imagination that you need a bigger motor to increase safety of your vessel. Now here is what you do need to keep in mind is your older boat was originally built in the era of 2-smoke motors and compared to todays 4-strokes the 2-Smokes are all smaller and lighter; and all are subtracted from the max overall load you can carry. I'm just going to speak for Mercury 4-strokes motors and say that they are one of the lightest motors in class that your going to find with the 60-HP weighting in at a mere 260 pounds and while it is an absolutely great motor I'm telling you that Mercury's next class of motor the 2.1 liters is an absolutely hands down better motor than the 60 ever will be. It starts out at an 75-HP weighting in at only 359 pounds and goes up to 115-HP with no more weight at all. Truthfully if I were going to hang a new motor on your rebuild I'd go with the 90-HP Command Thrust motor which weights 363 pounds and swings a bigger class of prop borrowed from the 150 sized motors. The bigger the prop the bigger the bite they take in the water and when they take a bigger bite this equates to a safer boating experience. You can actually lift or lower your bow at very modest slow speeds using the power trim feature.

[willyg1997]

Willy,

I have a 20' pontoon but the diameter of the logs are 27" which puts me higher out of the water (90HP outboard too). Only once I had 6 adults and 3 kids on board. Never again.

I didn't plow with that load but I wasn't very comfortable with that much of a load.

You didn't mention how the boat performed with a lighter load (you and your wife/g-friend).

You may have just too many people on board. You can't really measure the load with the number of people, you have to consider the weight.

Do you still have problems with you and one other on board?

As note above a few post, it rides like a go-kart with only two. Never dives and I can drive it hard any way, I cant even purposely dive the pontoon.

On a side note, it is only me an my wife, she wont let me have a g-friend.

[teecro]

.... On a side note, it is only me an my wife, she wont let me have a g-friend.

Funny how they are that way!

[willyg1997]

... Thanks to all that has helped me with this. I have two months to talk me wife into a new 4stroke. Thinking a 60hp .

And ya, when there is only two on the toon it never nose dives. Rides like a go-kart. A 25hp go-kart that is.

Let us help you with that too.... It is not going to be a lie or stretch of the imagination that you need a bigger motor to increase safety of your vessel. Now here is what you do need to keep in mind is your older boat was originally built in the era of 2-smoke motors and compared to todays 4-strokes the 2-Smokes are all smaller and lighter; and all are subtracted from the max overall load you can carry. I'm just going to speak for Mercury 4-strokes motors and say that they are one of the lightest motors in class that your going to find with the 60-HP weighting in at a mere 260 pounds and while it is an absolutely great motor I'm telling you that Mercury's next class of motor the 2.1 liters is an absolutely hands down better motor than the 60 ever will be. It starts out at an 75-HP weighting in at only 359 pounds and goes up to 115-HP with no more weight at all. Truthfully if I were going to hang a new motor on your rebuild I'd go with the 90-HP Command Thrust motor which weights 363 pounds and swings a bigger class of prop borrowed from the 150 sized motors. The bigger the prop the bigger the bite they take in the water and when they take a bigger bite this equates to a safer boating experience. You can actually lift or lower your bow at very modest slow speeds using the power trim feature.

This is good. I will keep that in mind when looking for a motor. Plus if I were to add one of those pony toon to the center the larger motor would have no issue pushing the pontoon, this would give me the safety I am looking for.

As far as the added weight/power of the larger 4-stroke, I took that into account when I rebuilt the pontoon. On the deck frame I added three 8' - 2x2 1/4 thick galvanized angle iron to the deck frame tying in the logs/deck/motor mount tunnel. Before I added the extra support I could stand on the end of the motor mount and it would bounce. After the supports I can hang my pick-up off the end. Might be overkill but it is strong.

I added a pic of my dog ramp. 6' Fiberglass ramp, 3m traction adhesive matt, two boat cushions underneath.

[Bryden24shp]

I like the renovation, it looks great. You have done a fantastic job. But, I think I see what happened... As a rule of thumb, your bow railing and furniture should not extend over the front weld line where the pontoons meet the nosecones. It looks like your center of gravity is pushed way too far forward. I would guess by at least 4 feet. For sure, more stern weight and a bigger motor will help get the stern down. I think you need add more pontoon length or shorten up the playpen, to get you center of gravity back where it should be. I would interested in seeing what this did to your tongue weight on your trailer? Should be about 10 to 15% of the total boat/motor trailer weight. If you weigh 3000 and have 400 pounds of tongue weight, that may be a dead giveaway to your problem... Tow your rig to a semi weight scale and weigh it. Then weigh the tongue weight on a scale.
Again, great job on the rebuild, it looks super nice!

[ron nh]

Yep, that picture definitely tells the story. Those toons have to be heavy also, with those angles I would think the metal would be thicker than the round one's, No? That is a good job though, My Newfy would love that ramp. He hates going from dock to boat.

[BobL]

2 more questions....

1 - Where is your fuel tank located?
2 - Where is your battery located?

All my toon boats had a lot of weight in the back (engine, fuel, and battery).

[brumbyvet]

The sticker I believe is 10 people, don't remember the max weight is of hand. Normally we have between 4 to 6 adults.

When anchored empty the back of the tube is aprox 1/4 under water and the front is even less. The line above the center of the tube was from big upside down sitting in water for a period of time.

The new furniture is very light. Plus with the fiberglass flooring the pontoon is less weight then oem weight. The weight with motor is around1500#.

When loadded with 8 adults the back water line is about 2" below center line and the front is around 4" below center line.

So I think the level height is ok. For the most part.

From what you say the front is way overloaded. The front of the toons should never be more under water then the rear of the toons. In most cases very little of the front of the toons are under water at all.