Cost of service?
Moderators: Redneck_Randy, badmoonrising, lakerunner
Cost of service?
I recently purchased a 2002 25' SunTracker Regency with a Mercruiser 3.0 i/o and Alpha one outdrive. I have worked on plenty of cars but not on boats and since I don't really have any service records on this boat (had it looked at by a mercruiser repair shop before purchase), I was going to go ahead and have the shop that checked it out for me do a full service on it. I didn't write down everything they said they would do, but it basically included tune up, timing, replace all gaskets and seals, oil change, replace the other fluids, replace impellar, grease u-joints, tighten bolts etc... etc... They have a "package" price for what they call a 200hr service that includes all this for $1100. I just wanted to get a feel on the price. Does this sound right? Expensive?
Sounds a little high for me, since I think in terms of cars.... but if this is the going rate I don't mind paying to have someone really go through the whole thing once and then I can keep up with regular maintaince from then on. Thoughts? Opinions?
THANKS!!
Sounds a little high for me, since I think in terms of cars.... but if this is the going rate I don't mind paying to have someone really go through the whole thing once and then I can keep up with regular maintaince from then on. Thoughts? Opinions?
THANKS!!
2002 25' SunTracker Regency
135 hp Mercruiser 3.0 i/o
135 hp Mercruiser 3.0 i/o
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Re: Cost of service?
Sounds a little high to me also, but at 100bucks an hour for labor alone it adds up quickly. Peace of mind is good to have when you got the family an friends out on the boat for a week end, especially when you are not familar with the boat or its history. I would get a break down of the estimate in hours of work an material cost. If you have worked on cars you should be able to identify any charges that seem excessive. I was thinking maybe 800 more or less so the 1100 is not real out of line since, I usually err on the downside.
doc
doc
Dying ain't much of living boy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... gm-sp1-Nhs
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Re: Cost of service?
I have never used a shop for routine maintenance, but I guess it would depend on what is meant by :
Also, what other fluids (besides oil) are in an I/O?
I have never had an I/O, but aren't they very similiar to a car engine? if so it sounds like a grease gun and a case of oil might save you some serious money. the outdrive stuff may be a bit trickier though?
Like Doc said, best to get a written description of their 200 hr service. I know some of the chain car maintenance stores boast a 150 point inspection, but 90% of the points are BS....they just figure people will automatically think more is better (and I am sure it works on some).
I wonder what gaskets and seals they are talking about....if they are taking carb gaskets or lower unit seals, then $1,100 seems high....now if we are talking head gaskets and crank shaft seals then $1,100 is a good price.Classic wrote:.....replace all gaskets and seals,...
Also, what other fluids (besides oil) are in an I/O?
I have never had an I/O, but aren't they very similiar to a car engine? if so it sounds like a grease gun and a case of oil might save you some serious money. the outdrive stuff may be a bit trickier though?
Like Doc said, best to get a written description of their 200 hr service. I know some of the chain car maintenance stores boast a 150 point inspection, but 90% of the points are BS....they just figure people will automatically think more is better (and I am sure it works on some).
- FloterBoter
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Re: Cost of service?
if you've worked on cars you can do all of that yourself, and probably should so you learn the systems a bit. the 3.0 is pretty much an auto engine design with marine parts hung on it. the alpha one is a basic outdrive.
you would need to get the maintenance manual. clymer prints one but i've found the merc manuals to be better. you can probably still find the merc service manuals online somewhere for free.
tune up - basically changing plugs, adjusting carb idle screws (use a vacuum gauge), maybe replacing the rotor in the distributor (depends what ignition you have). i have a pertronix electronic aftermarket, so no more points to replace on mine. change both fuel filters. if you're not sure of history, i'd put in a new thermostat. if the plug wires look old, i'd replace them.
timing - you just need a timing light. this is trivial.
replace all gaskets and seals - i'd ask them for a list. i really doubt they will replace them "all".
oil change - oil & filter, easy to do, just messy depending on your bilge size.
replace the other fluids - what other fluids? i think all that's left is the outdrive gear lube (you always replace that in the fall) and the trim pump hydraulic oil. for the gear lube, you need the little hand pump that attaches to the gear lube bottles. and you want new seal washers for the drain and vent plugs. all of this is very easy.
replace impeller - obviously this comes before putting in the new gear lube. you have to drop the lower unit off the outdrive. read the manual. this isn't that hard if you take your time. it makes NO sense to replace just the impeller. the pump is plastic and it wears out; if it fails, you overhear and ruin your engine. buy the pump kit. it may not include the base. buy the pump base, too. you can consider the globe blue "run dry" impeller. they are pricey but some people swear by them. the navy uses them. but they should be replaced every two years just like the regular black merc impellers. (i run my impellers 3-4 years, shhh, don't tell anyone).
grease u-joints - you have to pull the outdrive to do that. that may sound hard, but you take off a handfull of nuts and it pulls off. trivial. if you're not a strong guy, have a helper or build a stand (plenty of photos and discussions online). you have to pull the outdrive every fall to grease the coupler splines anyway. if you don't, then don't whine when you lose your coupler miles from home (yes, it happens, and very often). the coupler's female splines are designed to be the sacrificial part in the drive system. they are aluminum and should fail before you break gears or wreck the engine. but when you lose your coupler, you will have the honor of pulling your engine to replace it. (actually, pulling the engine isn't all that bad, either. i've done it a few times.) read the manual in advance and go buy the right greases and lubes. for example, the splines need spline grease; regular grease can't handle the loads and will break down and fail. before you reinstall your outdrive, you need to check the alignment of the gimbal bearing with the engine coupler. you need the alignment tool to do this. you can get it on ebay very cheaply.
tighten bolts - no big deal. read the manual and use a torque wrench if in doubt.
for your FIRST TIME through these, i'd say...
tune up... 2 hours
timing... 1 hour
gaskets & seals... ?? this is part of the other operations
oil & filter change... 1 hour
replace impeller... 3 hours
grease u-joints and coupler spline, reinstall outdrive... 1 hour
new gear lube... 1 hour
trim pump oil... i wouldn't bother, just top it off--about any hydraulic oil is fine, but use what is called for.
tighten bolts... 1 hour
admire your work... two to three beers
so i get about 10 hours of your time. you will need to read the service manual first (which every boat owner should do anyway_, so add 3 to 4 hours of bathroom reading. you will need to get the right lubes and fluids, the fuel and oil filters, the spark plugs, and the gear lube pump and the alignment tool. you'll spend maybe 50 bucks on tools, $60 for the raw water pump and probably about $90 on the fluids and filters. for fluids and filters, you can check walmart or your marina, or you could order them online from boatfix or iboats or someplace like that.
so do you want to spend maybe $200 and 10-20 hours of your time, and actually understand your boat, and be able to do the fall and spring maintenance yourself every year?
or do you want to pay through the nose to have someone else do it (and maybe screw up your boat in some other way for you; that's been my experience).
your call!
either way, best of luck.
fb
you would need to get the maintenance manual. clymer prints one but i've found the merc manuals to be better. you can probably still find the merc service manuals online somewhere for free.
tune up - basically changing plugs, adjusting carb idle screws (use a vacuum gauge), maybe replacing the rotor in the distributor (depends what ignition you have). i have a pertronix electronic aftermarket, so no more points to replace on mine. change both fuel filters. if you're not sure of history, i'd put in a new thermostat. if the plug wires look old, i'd replace them.
timing - you just need a timing light. this is trivial.
replace all gaskets and seals - i'd ask them for a list. i really doubt they will replace them "all".
oil change - oil & filter, easy to do, just messy depending on your bilge size.
replace the other fluids - what other fluids? i think all that's left is the outdrive gear lube (you always replace that in the fall) and the trim pump hydraulic oil. for the gear lube, you need the little hand pump that attaches to the gear lube bottles. and you want new seal washers for the drain and vent plugs. all of this is very easy.
replace impeller - obviously this comes before putting in the new gear lube. you have to drop the lower unit off the outdrive. read the manual. this isn't that hard if you take your time. it makes NO sense to replace just the impeller. the pump is plastic and it wears out; if it fails, you overhear and ruin your engine. buy the pump kit. it may not include the base. buy the pump base, too. you can consider the globe blue "run dry" impeller. they are pricey but some people swear by them. the navy uses them. but they should be replaced every two years just like the regular black merc impellers. (i run my impellers 3-4 years, shhh, don't tell anyone).
grease u-joints - you have to pull the outdrive to do that. that may sound hard, but you take off a handfull of nuts and it pulls off. trivial. if you're not a strong guy, have a helper or build a stand (plenty of photos and discussions online). you have to pull the outdrive every fall to grease the coupler splines anyway. if you don't, then don't whine when you lose your coupler miles from home (yes, it happens, and very often). the coupler's female splines are designed to be the sacrificial part in the drive system. they are aluminum and should fail before you break gears or wreck the engine. but when you lose your coupler, you will have the honor of pulling your engine to replace it. (actually, pulling the engine isn't all that bad, either. i've done it a few times.) read the manual in advance and go buy the right greases and lubes. for example, the splines need spline grease; regular grease can't handle the loads and will break down and fail. before you reinstall your outdrive, you need to check the alignment of the gimbal bearing with the engine coupler. you need the alignment tool to do this. you can get it on ebay very cheaply.
tighten bolts - no big deal. read the manual and use a torque wrench if in doubt.
for your FIRST TIME through these, i'd say...
tune up... 2 hours
timing... 1 hour
gaskets & seals... ?? this is part of the other operations
oil & filter change... 1 hour
replace impeller... 3 hours
grease u-joints and coupler spline, reinstall outdrive... 1 hour
new gear lube... 1 hour
trim pump oil... i wouldn't bother, just top it off--about any hydraulic oil is fine, but use what is called for.
tighten bolts... 1 hour
admire your work... two to three beers
so i get about 10 hours of your time. you will need to read the service manual first (which every boat owner should do anyway_, so add 3 to 4 hours of bathroom reading. you will need to get the right lubes and fluids, the fuel and oil filters, the spark plugs, and the gear lube pump and the alignment tool. you'll spend maybe 50 bucks on tools, $60 for the raw water pump and probably about $90 on the fluids and filters. for fluids and filters, you can check walmart or your marina, or you could order them online from boatfix or iboats or someplace like that.
so do you want to spend maybe $200 and 10-20 hours of your time, and actually understand your boat, and be able to do the fall and spring maintenance yourself every year?
or do you want to pay through the nose to have someone else do it (and maybe screw up your boat in some other way for you; that's been my experience).
your call!
either way, best of luck.
fb
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- Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:23 am
Re: Cost of service?
Holy Cr@p FB!!!
That was one helluva post; I hope you know this much about early Yammi outboards too!
That was one helluva post; I hope you know this much about early Yammi outboards too!
- FloterBoter
- Posts: 2872
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:42 pm
Re: Cost of service?
i know how to spell yammi.
but thats about it. sorry.
but thats about it. sorry.
Re: Cost of service?
Thanks for all the replies! Especially FB! I am in Georgia and plan on using the boat to some degree or other throughout the year. It is currently moored at my dock and I do not have a trailer to pull it out (they will pull it out of water at marina/shop for service)..... but I am thinking about just buying a trailer and doing the service myself... but I haven't decided for sure as there is a peace of mind thing having a certified merc mechanic go through it one time.... anyway, I asked them to email me a list of what the service included.... here is what he sent:
B Service- 200 Hour Intervals/Every Two Years:
Record engine hours
=== Run engine to bring oil to operating temperature
Remove engine oil
Remove oil filter (s)
Visually inspect hoses/clamps/belts Install new oil filter (s)
Refill crankcase with oil
Run engine
Check for proper oil level Clean bilge
Spray with corrosion inhibitor Remove outdrive (s)
Inspect engine alignment
Replace gasket kit (s) and install drive (s)
___ Inspect and lubricate Ujoints and splines
___ Inspect bellows and clamps
Change drive unit oil
=== Retorque connection of gimbal ring to steering shaft
___ Inspect/Lubricate gimbal bearing
___ Replace fuel filter (s)
___ Check steering system and remote control for loose, missing or damaged parts
Lubricate cables and linkages Lubricate gimbal bearing and engine coupler
Check continuity circuit for loose or damaged connections
Test MerCathode unit output on Bravo models
Retorque engine mounts Check spark plug wires Replace spark plugs
___ Replace distributor cap (s) and rotor (s)
Replace PCV valve (s) Clean flame arrestor
Check electrical system for loose, damaged or corroded fasteners
Inspect condition and tension of belts
Check cooling system and exhaust system hose clamps for tightness
___ Inspect both systems for damage or leaks
Replace seawater pump impeller (s) and inspect housing
Clean seawater section of closed cooling system
Clean, inspect and test pressure cap
Courtesy Check SD:
Check battery (s)
Inspect battery cables
Verify gauge operation
Inspect bilge pump operation Inspect bilge blower operation Verify nav. light operation
Verify horn operation
Verify VHF radio operation Verify proper fluid levels Inspect drain plug in/out of boat Inspect skeg/prop condition Inspect bellows
Inspect engine for fuel, oil and water leaks
Check/Clean sea strainer (if applicable)
Check steering operation
B Service- 200 Hour Intervals/Every Two Years:
Record engine hours
=== Run engine to bring oil to operating temperature
Remove engine oil
Remove oil filter (s)
Visually inspect hoses/clamps/belts Install new oil filter (s)
Refill crankcase with oil
Run engine
Check for proper oil level Clean bilge
Spray with corrosion inhibitor Remove outdrive (s)
Inspect engine alignment
Replace gasket kit (s) and install drive (s)
___ Inspect and lubricate Ujoints and splines
___ Inspect bellows and clamps
Change drive unit oil
=== Retorque connection of gimbal ring to steering shaft
___ Inspect/Lubricate gimbal bearing
___ Replace fuel filter (s)
___ Check steering system and remote control for loose, missing or damaged parts
Lubricate cables and linkages Lubricate gimbal bearing and engine coupler
Check continuity circuit for loose or damaged connections
Test MerCathode unit output on Bravo models
Retorque engine mounts Check spark plug wires Replace spark plugs
___ Replace distributor cap (s) and rotor (s)
Replace PCV valve (s) Clean flame arrestor
Check electrical system for loose, damaged or corroded fasteners
Inspect condition and tension of belts
Check cooling system and exhaust system hose clamps for tightness
___ Inspect both systems for damage or leaks
Replace seawater pump impeller (s) and inspect housing
Clean seawater section of closed cooling system
Clean, inspect and test pressure cap
Courtesy Check SD:
Check battery (s)
Inspect battery cables
Verify gauge operation
Inspect bilge pump operation Inspect bilge blower operation Verify nav. light operation
Verify horn operation
Verify VHF radio operation Verify proper fluid levels Inspect drain plug in/out of boat Inspect skeg/prop condition Inspect bellows
Inspect engine for fuel, oil and water leaks
Check/Clean sea strainer (if applicable)
Check steering operation
2002 25' SunTracker Regency
135 hp Mercruiser 3.0 i/o
135 hp Mercruiser 3.0 i/o
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Re: Cost of service?
i think all of that is worth like a third of the price. all of the list you could do yourself for a fraction of the price
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Re: Cost of service?
What lake are you on? That list has a lot of things listed like run engine an record hrs. an things that you should be lumped in to the check boat heading. If you are near lanier send me a pm an I can hook you up with my mech. He is certified merc, an does all my work.Besides I know the owner pretty well, might say he is family.
doc
doc
Dying ain't much of living boy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... gm-sp1-Nhs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... gm-sp1-Nhs
Re: Cost of service?
There are alot of things on that list that just seems as though they can check off without really doing anything at all. I was burned by a Mechanic one time and ever since then ive always been weary of them, and tried it on my own first. I am a first time boat owner and this is my first year, but with a little research I was able to go through you list and just about check everything myself that I could do about $800 dollars cheaper. I dont know but for me it just seems like alot of simple things they just throw in there to make the list look long, it looks appealing, but how much of that do you really need them for?
Before I bought my boat, I asked my uncle who has been a boat owner for about 30 years what was the one piece of advice he could give me, he said " Learn to work on your boat yourself, no one will do it like you will, and with the money you save in 10 years, but you a new one".
Before I bought my boat, I asked my uncle who has been a boat owner for about 30 years what was the one piece of advice he could give me, he said " Learn to work on your boat yourself, no one will do it like you will, and with the money you save in 10 years, but you a new one".
2014 Veranda 22ft
Yamaha High Thrust 115hp
2011 Dodge Ram 1500
I will keep my Guns
I will keep my money
and you can KEEP THE CHANGE!!
America will never be destroyed, if we falter it will be because we destroyed ourself- Ab. Lincoln
Yamaha High Thrust 115hp
2011 Dodge Ram 1500
I will keep my Guns
I will keep my money
and you can KEEP THE CHANGE!!
America will never be destroyed, if we falter it will be because we destroyed ourself- Ab. Lincoln
- LTB Racing
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:20 am
- Location: Lake Tarpon, Florida
- Contact:
Re: Cost of service?
FB-FloterBoter wrote:
replace impeller - obviously this comes before putting in the new gear lube. you have to drop the lower unit off the outdrive. read the manual. this isn't that hard if you take your time. it makes NO sense to replace just the impeller. the pump is plastic and it wears out; if it fails, you overhear and ruin your engine. buy the pump kit. it may not include the base. buy the pump base, too. you can consider the globe blue "run dry" impeller. they are pricey but some people swear by them. the navy uses them. but they should be replaced every two years just like the regular black merc impellers. (i run my impellers 3-4 years, shhh, don't tell anyone).
fb
Excellent advise and I'd agree w/ all of it however the Alpha one in question is Gen II and has the new style water pump and you can just replace w/ the impeller kit which consist of an impeller and wear plate...the housing and base are no longer plastic and very costly however they last a lot longer now...I only replace the housings when they are damaged.
LTB Racing
Quartershot T3-R Merc 2.5 260
Fiesta 18 Party Barge w/ Twin Evinrude 50's
http://WWW.LTBracing.com
"The great ones practice the basics"
Quartershot T3-R Merc 2.5 260
Fiesta 18 Party Barge w/ Twin Evinrude 50's
http://WWW.LTBracing.com
"The great ones practice the basics"
- FloterBoter
- Posts: 2872
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:42 pm
Re: Cost of service?
agreed. i didn't realize it was the newer pump. thanks.