Another Center Pod Qquestion

[Rooster368]

First off, this is a great site...been rummaging through some of the old posts and have gotten some good ideas for my restore project.

I have been searching for the answer to this question for a couple nights now and I have not found what I was looking for (or maybe I found it, but didn't understand it well enough to know I had found it); the question is related to the appropriate sizing of a center tube/ log/ pod.

Background information:

I have a 28' 1970 RichLine with two 21" (H) x 21" (W) x 32' (L). These are the U shaped type tubes. It currently has a 28hp motor on it, but I would like to put a larger (i.e. 115hp) motor on it; the problem however, is the transom….it is rather pathetic. I took it up to the marina last weekend, and the technician confirmed it was too small to attempt such an upgrade. He suggested I find a mid-range power plant, but I am stuck with the 115hp (since I already have it).

The only option I have at this point is to stregthen the transom.

Question:

What are the advantages/ disadvantages for using a shorter tube with a larger diameter and built in transom?

I ask because I have not been able to locate tubes of similiar shape and length as the originals; however, I have found a semi-local place where I could get a 25" (H) x 23" (W) x 11' (L) for a reasonable price (w/o shipping), but I am worried about the effects this center pod would have on driving characteristics of the boat.

Ay advice would be much appreciated.

R

[texaspontoon]

YOu just asked a tough question. How attachted to the boat are you? YOur project may cost you more than it is worth, and you may not be happy with how it turns out. Have you considered selling it and finding a nice boat with a crappy or broken engine? Or even selling all three (current boat with current engine) plus sell the engine and controlls seperately, and then buy what you really want?

Reason I ask is you are going to have to buy the center toon, find someone to weld it or mount it, plus the time and effort to switch the control box and engine cables, and engine. It is NOT an easy or cheap project, and it may not perform they way you want it to when it is all said and done.

I spent 3 years and a lot of money trying to restore a 28' Bayliner Bounty cabin cruiser and ended up with a new pontoon for less money than I was paying my mechanic on a monthly basis!

Hope whatever way you go, it works out for you so you can get on the water and do what you love. That is what it is all about right?

[Rooster368]

Thanks for the input. I would very much like to trade this beast in for a sleek 25' pontoon with double biminis and a 4 stroke 115 I found on Craigs list for $5200....however, I don't think my folks will go for it.

Unfortunately, the boat has some sentimental value to my mother.......it was her parents and such (i.e. lots of memories I guess). Also, it was grandfathered in when the private lake we go to enacted boat length requirements...thus it has the prestigous honor of being the largest vessel on the lake (even if it is the slowest).

I have read about the Pontoon Water Glide (PWG), and I am curious how it is different from a oversized center pod....both are shorter the the outside tubes, and extend further into the water. I can see the PWG is wider (which would provide better planing ability), but I was thinking lifting stakes on the ozersized center tube may accomplish a similiar effect.

I know I may be pushing a bad position, but I would really hate to keep things the way they are, or search out new power (i.e. 50 hp - 60 hp) which would only give minimal performance enhacement for about the same cost as upgrading the transom.

I appreciate any advice.

R

[slingshot]

Have thought about going with a center log with a built in transome. There are several for sale on Ebay. Just remove your engine pod and install the center log. I'm sure one of those would hold your 115.

[Rooster368]

That's sort of along the line of the things I was looking at...the only concerns I had where length, shape, and diameter considerations.

To make this somewhat economical, I need to find a supplier with in driving distance of St. Louis, MO in order to save on the typical +$750 shipping costs. The longest longest U-shaped tubes I have been able are either 9' shorter and is 2" deeper, or 5' shorter and 1" shallower than my current ones (http://stlouis.ebayclassifieds.com/part ... ?ad=190027).

If I go for a 3rd tube then it would have to have a transom, otherwise I would still have to have the transom reinforced/ replaced.

Anyone know of any other suppliers of new or used tubes from this area?

Thanks,
Rich

[curtiscapk]

Here you go rooster in your backyard too

http://stlouis.ebayclassifieds.com/part ... ?ad=190027

[GXPWeasel]

I would say go with the center log that is 9' shorter ,but 2" deeper. My resoning is, you are going to add floatation to the rear end of your toon with that center log, that has a built in transom. This is where most toons, especially older ones need more lift is in the rear. Second, you will actually get some performance gains by having a center log that sits a bit deeper than the outside ones. Those performace gains being turning ability. Your toon will grab more in the center, and be able to skim a bit on the outsides, hence decreasing your turning radius. Hell I say go for it, and don't forget to take some pictures along the way. I see it as a win/win for you and your family if you can find a good center log that has a solid transom built in, even if it is shorter than the rest of the boat.

[oldmn19]

The only problem not discussed is the rating plate on the toon! If you over power it your Insurance company will not stand with you if you have an accident! Now the odds on an accident are high you won't, but if the local water police check you out on the water it could get sticky fast. I hate to be a wet blanket but! With my luck I'd get checked on the maiden trip with it! How about selling the motor you want to install and finding the best fit for what you have and fixing up the transom?

[Rooster368]

Again, thanks for the replies.

One problem I have had when I stating thinking about this was the lack of nameplate information (regarding capacities). The boat has had its deck and furniture replaced a couple times over the years, such that now any manufactures plates are long since gone. Additionally, the manufacturer (Richline) is no longer in business, and there is not much information out there....even if there was I have no unique identification numbers to have it cross-referenced. As far as insurance goes I will need to check with the agent..maybe they have it on file.

My concern with a shorter tube is that one post I read on a different board said that recessed center tubes pose a resistance problem.....something about water flow from the outer tubes colliding with the center tube; that guy said you should always have the center tube either at the same point, or in front of the out outer tubes. However, he did not elaborate much on the topic, and I haven't seen it talked about by others. Isn't this how the pontoon water glide (PWG) works though?

So I am at a loss....

1. I can't verify the manufactures info, so I don't know the maximum HP motor I can safely put on the original transom, as such I am not able to prove I am in compliance with boat capacities as it is.

2. if I upgrade transoms then I may be limited by the capacity of the 21" tubes, so if I am gonna upgrade it seems to make more sense adding a center tube with a transom.

3. if I am upgrading to a bigger center tube, then I should upgrade the motor to account for the additional resistance of the 3rd tube.

4. if there is a significant increase in drag/ resistance due to the (shorter) 3rd log's effects on hydro-dynamics, do I really gain anything for all the time and money?

5. if I go with a shorter but thicker center tube, and a motor >90hp, then should I go ahead and have lifting strakes added to the center tube? Anybody familiar with this?

6. Should I cut my losses and buy two Jetskis's?


Sorry for the long post.

Rich

[TKE_Chevy]

I have a 30ft pontoon boat with a 115. It originally came with a two stroke and I upgraded it to a four stroke so it weighed considerably more than the original one. To compensate for the upgrade I purchased a solid aluminum transom and another tube. My outer tubes are U shaped and the middle one is round. The middle tube is not as long as the outer ones but is about 3 feet shorter and I haven't noticed any problems with it being shorter. As far as mounting a tube, I wouldn't say it is that hard to do if you have a drill and flexibility. Hope this helps.

[dragonsbear]

1st off, this is my first time on this forum. Very cool place.
I have a 1988 Tracker party hut, 28'. It has the 115 merc and a center 'toon. The center toon is shorter than the outer 2. It's there to support the extra weight of the cabin and the Merc. Only thing i would suggest is sheeting the underside. Makes the boat a little faster because it seriously reduces the "thumping" and resulting drag you normaly get when the water bounces between the 3 toons and hits the deck supports. You can also use a center 'toon larger in diameter than the outer 2 for more lift and a smoother ride.
If the boat has the sentimental value you say it has, then there should be no question about keeping it and building it like you want.
If it helps, My family's 27' Riviera Cruiser was rated for 85 HP. It had a 40 HP johnson but scooted around monroe reservoir (Bloomington, Indiana) just fine.
Hopes this helps a little.

[FloterBoter]

bolting on another toon is trivial.
if it was mine i'd go for it.

the harder part is the rigging for the bigger motor,
but i assume you know how to do that, or will pay
someone to do it.

[Rooster368]

Thank you all!

Based upon your replies, I have decided to go ahead with a FULL 3rd tube from the link I posted earlier. The guy (Bill) I spoke to was very knowledgeable, and polite.

I will be ordering a 20" (though it maybe 21") diameter tube that will have a built in transom (custom designed to hold my 20" shaft motor ). The tube will be about 2' shorter than the outer tubes, and recessed back from the front of the outside tubes (such that it will not extend beyond the current deck). This will place the transom about 6" behind the outer tubes (at the rear of the boat); hopefully this will keep my motor in undisturbed water during turns.

I did want a larger diameter tube than my 21" tubes, however, he had none in stock that were that long; so he recommended that I bolt the 20" center tube on, using 2-3" C channel tubing between the tube and the cross members. He said this would accomplish the same thing as a bigger diameter tube (i.e. better ride and turning capabilities). He also said I should hold off on the lifting strakes as they are about $600 a pair, and that I really wouldn't see much of an effect with them only on the center tube unless I had a motor >150hp.

All in all it will be about $1350 (and that includes a new 24 gallon tank built into the 3rd tube).

Due to his back log, I probably won't get the tube for a few weeks, but when I do I will attempt to put the tube on in the water (since I do not have a trailer for the boat). I gotta a feeling this may get interesting.

Thanks for all your assistance, but feel free to let know any problems you see with my design/ plan.....I would sure like to address them before he breaks out the torch.

Rich